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Stupid Rules

Sunday, 22 March 2009

By MG Mike Oates

What is the stupidest rule or policy you have seen in the Army?

Comments (93)

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My vote for stupid rule is you can't have sweaty PT clothing on in the chow hall. Honked me off a little at Victory, but it really honks me off here in Basra.

I have to be at work uber-early and I usually work late so I cut out at lunch for PT. Now I can't eat then do PT... and it's kind of silly if I'm going to PASS the chow hall at the tail end of my run not to go in and grab something. Saves time - especially here where the HQ, tents and chow halls are kind of disconnected - instead of backtracking later.

But the door police says I can't come in (even to get something to go) without my weapon and with sweaty PT clothes.

How about some common sense here. Heck, you work up a sweat just WALKING to the chow hall these days... Hey, I'm not asking for anything special - I'm trying to be more efficient...

I have a containerized housing unit in Iraq, much like all Soldiers in Iraq, that isn't impervious to the elements. During dust storms, my room is thick with dust.

I want to clean out my computer so that the dust doesn't permanently harm it. Too bad that General Order #1 prohibits me from having canned air in my quarters, lest I decide to sniff it to get high and die.

News flash: there are a lot of things that someone can sniff to get high that will probably kill them. Why did we ban something that's actually useful?

If canned air posed that much of a health risk, why can eight year olds buy it at Wal-Mart in the US? Why haven't there been calls to ban canned air in the US?

(Moderator Comment: General Order Number 1 does not prohibit you from having canned air in your CHU. Para. 3.d.3 prohibits you from: "Consuming, inhaling, ingesting, sniffing, or otherwise taking into the body any substance that could prove harmful and is not used for their intended purpose.")

So much for that "Ambassadors to the Military Services" thing, right?

I find very difficult to believe that whole, "long walk from the car to the Wal-Mart," because soldiers will (I'm not attacking anyone here) stand outside for minutes on end, smoking cigarettes, talking, looking at cars/motorcycles, working on boats, shoveling walkways ect... WITHOUT HEADGEAR!!

Let's call it what it is... Laziness... It's easier to pull on a fleese cap, than to look squared away and uphold a standard...

Lets face it...we aren't worried about standards... We're worried about our own little universes, right? Lets go the easy wrong over the hard right... yeah, that's okay...

I agree with Cpt S. on wearing the fleese off post. If your on the way home from work and have to pick up something from the store for dinner. Its a long cold walk across the Walmart parking lot without your ears covered.

I've seen two rules in recent years that are tied for the most stupid rules that I've ever seen in my 21 years of military duty.

#1
The mandatory wear of a reflective belt while wearing the APFU. HELLO, the APFU has been specifically-designed to omit the requirement of additinal reflective accessories. The APFU has reflective lettering and stripes incorporated into it already. The APFU is rather expensive work out clothing that is not very comfortable. To require that a Soldier purchase additional reflective gear defeats the entire purpose of the current APFU and, frankly, is a slap in the face to the people who worked so diligently designing the current APFU. I understand the safety issue. Safety is why reflective items were incorporated into the current APFU's design. I could understand (not really) if, for safety's sake, a reflective belt were required for wear while wearing the ACU or dress uniform, but not while wearing the reflective APFU. But then again, wearing a reflective belt while wearing the ACU or dress uniform would be completely stupid, as well. Every Soldier is a grown adult.

#2
The ridiculous policies that exist at the Army's current mobilization platforms = not allowing Soldiers to go off-base during non-duty hours, except under limited and restrictive circumstances, and not allowing Soldiers to consume acoholic beverages (I do not consume alcoholic beverages), etc. Again, these are fully-grown adults who are serving in America's armed forces and are about to embark upon the very serious mission of serving the united States overseas at war. If someone can't trust the Soldier to avoid getting hit by a car while wearing the APFU or not to over-indulge in alcoholic beverages or not to return to base at his own will because she/he decided to go off base after duty hours to consume a meal at a local restaurant prior to being sent overseas to consume KBR food for a year, then how can that someone trust these same Soldiers to defend America overseas during war?

Forcing a Soldier to do things like this is degrading to the Soldier and only serves as a negative factor in every Soldier's morale.

Fleece Caps off post... What is being done, off post, that would necessitate the use of this particular garment. Are you training? i.e. running, rucking, riding a bicycle, snow shoeing (sp) skiing... in ACU's? Probably not.

Personally, I don't like those things as is. They tend to make a Soldier look 'frumpy' and unkempt. But for training purposes, I can understand its function to prevent cold weather injuries.

Soldiers shouldn't be doing anything off-post to necessitate the wear of the ACU, with fleece cap. Though we may wear ACU's off post, the Blue Book is a good reference for where and when (page 7 in the APRIL 16, 2008 version).

We, as Soldiers, should set the standard for conduct and appearence off post, and off duty. We are, in other words, Ambassadors to Fort Drum and the military services.

Slightly skew of the subject, why do I see Soldiers, in the IPFU, off post at conveniece/grocery/liquor stores, and on post at shoppettes. Is there something I don't know? Do we NOT see the big signs (in front of on post establishments) that restrict the wear of these uniforms in these establishments? *tap, tap, tap* Is this thing on?

As far as stupid rules or policies go, 4 jump to mind:

1. Not being allowed to wear the fleece cap off-post at Fort Drum. Is it somehow magically warmer off-post than on? I served in Alaska for a long time, and this is certainly not a rule there. In fact, its wear is mandatory during the cold season (which is most of the year) for protecting against cold-weather injury. I have no idea what the rationale for this reg is, but I can only guess it has something to do with appearance. I was glad to see the transition to the ACU and desert boots, mainly because you are not allowed to press/starch the uniform and you can't polish the boots. We are a wartime, operational Army, which must focus on combat readiness. We can no longer afford the luxury of spit and polish for our field uniforms (Class A and B is a different story). Seriously - why did anyone, even with the old BDUs, ever think it was a good idea to dry clean and starch our FIELD uniform?!? The ACU is finally a recognition that a field uniform's purpose is functional, not to look like a dress uniform. The fleece hat serves a functional purpose: it keeps your head and ears warm in the cold. There is no good reason to restrict its use to post.

2. The beret. Relating back to #1 above, the beret serves no useful or functional purpose. The soft cap has a bill to shade your eyes from the sun and keep the rain off your face, and it should be the standard for wear with the ACU (with the boonie hat of course still optional when deployed). The beret is fine for wear with Class A and B uniforms.

3. Don't ask/don't tell. When I am deployed, my primary concern about the Soldiers with whom I serve is how good they are at their job, not their sexual orientation. It is ridiculous (not to mention potentially dangerous to those serving) to discharge a high-speed Soldier who may be an expert marksman just because they are homosexual, yet retain the straight Soldier who can barely hit the target or function in his/her MOS. The main criteria for enlistment and advancement should be COMPETENCE as a Soldier.

4. Information Assurance policy. The policy has become so restrictive that its current effect is to essentially make the computers useless for the purpose for which they were designed. If you have computers and networks, they are going to be attacked, subjected to viruses and malware, etc. This is a fact of life. The civilian sector has accepted this and is taking steps to mitigate it rather than continuing to entertain the fantasy that it can be stopped or prevented; it can't. The Army has got to learn that it must stomach some risk when it comes to information technology. Besides, if the information lost/stolen is that sensitive, what was it doing on NIPR in the first place anyway?

While I understand why certain canine breeds have been banned from Fort Drum; I do no agree with it. I have been bitten and moderately attacked a handful of times, when I was a child. Each incident, I was bitten or attacked by a small breed canine such as a Poodle. What everyone needs to remember is that ALL dogs bite, no matter the breed or upbringing. I think a mandatory pet owner course should be considered to live in housing on Fort Drum and that FDMCH should take an active stance on pets. While FDMCH mandates that ALL pets living in housing be microchipped, FDMCH doesn't actually enforce this rule. Registering our pets off-post doesn't help, there is a huge accountablitly gap that way. Register them on-post.

Our unit required us to get a Government Charge Card in order to go on company or platoon level TDY. I would make the Government Charge Card optional, if possible. I have been dealing with an issue from a TDY trip I never took two years ago. I did not book the travel, so when the trip was postponed, I also did not cancel the travel. I did not know the trip was not actually canceled. I did not understand the data which was forwarded to us in e-mail in arcane financialese. The first notice I had of debt was in my AKO e-mail nearly two years after the fact. I notified my C0C. It took long enough for an inquiry to go up the CoC that the debt started being collected before Finance determined the debt should be canceled. It is still being collected, and will have to eventually be re-imbursed now. (I'm not screaming to IG because I can cover it financially, and I know it will come out right in the end.)

Another issue was that we were not receiving bills for the BoA card on time through unit mail, so we'd get the last notice along with the first notices all at once, generally with warning about collection services being notified. The government was supposed to pay these bills for authorized travel, but there was a delay between them doing that, and the bill coming due. This was extremely frustrating for a person who ALWAYS pays bills on time, and needs good credit to maintain a TS/SCI security clearance for her job.

In short, why is my name on this Government Travel Card, and my credit at risk, when it is my unit which goes through DTS and puts airfare/hotel authorization in, the Army which is supposed to be financially responsible for official travel, and if I don't receive prompt notice when there is a bill due which the government has not yet paid?

I'd rather take on the full cost of travel with my own debit card, that way I have no bills to worry about, and the government can re-imburse me at its leisure. It does settle things in the end. But it occasionally takes two years to do so. I understand that not all Soldiers have enough cash on hand to cover travel, but it's not difficult for someone to provide a current bank account statement to support this claim.

"4. OPSEC and SAEDA training. Hello? This is 2009, not 1950. The Ruskies are gone. Let it go. Ditto for NBC."

Actually, you still need to pay attention.

If you don't think it's possible that our installations in Iraq and Afghanistan had visitors from other countries' intelligence and security services, to say nothing of your average card-carrying terrorists, you have another think coming. Also, rather a lot of Iraqis at least understand English fluently. Iraq Army units were and still are suspected of being infiltrated with people from every militant group from Al Qaeda in Iraq to the Shi'ite groups to former (and would-be future) Ba'athists. In spite of this, certain Battalion S2s see fit to brief Iraq Army units on stuff which is classified and/or inappropriate for non-allied FOREIGNERS. Last deployment lives were at risk because the terrorists were catching on from our TTPs from briefings, from observation, etc. They aren't stupid. (The stupid ones get blown up or detained pretty quickly.)

So look around you and pay attention to who's watching you. Pay attention in country. Pay attention at the gates in the States. Pay attention when you fly in uniform as a group, such as at the entry/exit airports for EML leave. And remember SAEDA's number.

Plenty of countries in the sunny Middle East have access to NBC weapons. We aren't currently involved with them, but it could happen. The training and maintenance of NBC gear must continue, whether it seems to have a point or not.

Always prepared. Sorry if that makes y'all paranoid.

I think it would be in the better interest of the Army to discontinue the practice of granting moral waivers without greater scrutiny in the process. The Army is attracting too much of a criminal element. And it's silly to think that rote memorizing the Army values will somehow result in true morals and decency being internalized in these individuals. Just because someone can recite the Army values stone cold does not mean that they're "morally fit" and have a moral character in keeping with military standards.

Whenever I hear about robberies, murders, and other serious crimes committed by servicemembers in the news, I have to wonder whether this incidents could have been deterred. The Army has been far too eager to ship at-risk people out to basic and to keep the numbers up. And you find that many Soldiers compensate from the structure and discipline by engaging in high-risk, criminal activities while off-duty.

Another issue is that these deployments have engendered a spirit of apathy and rushed training and preparation. From my experience, our Section did not develop the necessary working rapport and camaraderie before we deployed. We weren't involved in any teambuilding activities or training events before we deployed because we were too busy getting our equipment ready. This had a debilitating effect on our Section's morale and working relationships in the latter stages of the deployment.

FTXs, weekend outings to the range and training events at other installations really do pay dividends in my experience. When you isolate a Section from distractions and put them together out in the field, they develop a spiritual bond and synergy that can last throughout the deployment. The current OPTEMPO for our unit did not enable our Section to take part in such activities.

Specialist,

10TH MTN DIV HHC

This comment is proof that the Army CAN learn and reverse stupid rules. One of the dumbest rules I ever experienced was the one enforced on most Army posts from the early '80s until OEF/OIF started. That was the rule that required all Soldiers to wear camouflage face paint every time they went to the field/crossed range road/entered a training area, etc. Once upon a time I was a scout and in a LRS unit--face poaint had a real purpose. For the vast majority of the Army, however, the requirement to wear camouflage on one's face was stupid. We turned it into "war paint." The epitome of stupidity was making helicopter pilots wear it--I guess that the enemy was supposed to think that there were trees flying those helicopters! Thankfully, we learned and after 20 plus years of being stupid, changed our ways.

Well this was a great topic. I read alot of answers I agree with.

I think this a better question for the future should be "WHY ARENT YOU REENLISTING?"

There are alot of stupid rules in the army, and i think they have already been covered.

I think one thing I can add here that nobody has touched upon... Is the view from a soldier from Generation-X...

Remember us? We were the graduating class of 2000. The true "new-millennium adults". The real "Next Generation"...

Well Ive been in for 2.5 years, and im looking at another year plus stop loss ahead of me.

Im getting older, he guys coming in are staying the same age lol.

One thing im constantly seeing is the problems of my generation, only ALOT WORSE!

Rap got really popular with my generation, as in white guys who dressed like white guys had rap cds... but now its much worse... go up to the mall on a saturday and try to find a white guy dressed like what used to be a white guys dress style.

This is what im getting at... the world around us is constantly changing. The army is fighting as hard as it can to remain the same. The majority of the decision makers in this Army are from a generation that rebelled by listening to ELVIS!

The army needs to make some serious changes.

I have no doubt in my mind that I could stay in and make a difference, but I wont. Theres no way I can deal with the Armys level of unprofessional on the inside, yet lets appear to be oh so professional on the outside.

Think of the way the Army operates from an educated civilians point of view...

Its a bunch of guys cussing, getting pissed over stupid stuff and acting like babies, pointing out that people have a back pocket unbuttoned, or got forbid put their hands in their pockets when they dont have gloves on...

Its a bunch of PAPERWORK that hasnt been moved over to digits, a bunch of data on government computers with NO WORKING USB DRIVES.

I mean, I cant stress enough that the Army is basically running on a level right now that anyone my age with half a brain would UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES reup to continue to do this.

The civilian world would not put up with 99 percent of the crap we put up with, and 100 percent of that is do to human drama...
Its not the army thats muffed up, Its the people in it.

I think its scary to think about what its going to be like when my generation is a 4 star....

Just one? How about my top 10?

1. The beret. This may be, hands down, the most idiotic thing I have ever seen the Senior leadership of the Army do. Replace a perfectly practical headgear (the PC) with one that has special meaning to paratroopers and elite Soldiers. While your at it, steal the color already used by the Rangers. And do it all in the name of "making everyone feel special." Earth to Senior leadership. Hello?

2. The new "Mall Cop" dress uniform. Oh my God, what the hell is this clown suit? This rivals (and maybe surpasses) the beret. Take the dress blues--our formal uniform for years--add a white shirt and a few other silly doo dads, take away our unit patches and our combat patches, then lie to us and say you "pulsed the force" and Soldiers all throught it was great!!! Huh? What Soldiers? Look guys, this is not complicated. Ask any Soldier what our dress uniform should be and they will all say te same thing: THE WWII ERA PINKS AND GREENS. Khaki shirt and khaki pants, brown jacket. With that set up we could still wear all the normal awards, decorations, chevrons, DUI, etc, plus our FULL COLOR unit patched and our COMBAT PATCHES. Again, I have to ask, who thinks up this stuff? Why in the middle of 2 wars are we doing this?

3. Rolling up our BDU sleeves so the camo part shows. Calling that stupid is an insult to really stupid things.

4. OPSEC and SAEDA training. Hello? This is 2009, not 1950. The Ruskies are gone. Let it go. Ditto for NBC.

5. The M9 pistol. With all of the outstanding handguns on the market--Glock, Sig, Colt--the Army still issues this piece of junk. And after they issue it you get no meaningful training on pistol shooting. Line up. Plink at a target. Call it a day. Hey Army--how about a decent handgun and some battle focused, practical pistol shooting training to go with it? Nah. Might conflict with consideration of others training.

6. 15-month combat tours. Hey, there's a recipe for enhancing readiness, recruiting, retention, and well-adjusted Army families. Absolutely disgraceful. You cannot convince me that rule was necessary. It was just the Army trying to do things on the cheap because they didn't want to pay to rotate units in and out.

7. The Army values tag. Here put this around your neck. OK, now you're moral, ethical, and all that. Good work, Soldier.

8. EO. I will readily admit that there was a time when equal opportunity was a real issue in the Army, but, hey, newsflash: its 2009, not 1970. There are 4-star generals from every gender and ethnic group. For heavens sake, the CINC is an African-American. If a Soldier has an issue with discrimination in this day and age he or she has plenty of existing avenues: the chain of command, the IG, his or her congressman. EO is a relic from the 60's and 70s. It's time to move on.

9. The APFT. We have been doing the same 3 exercises to test fitness for what--25 years now? With all the progress we have made with understanding fitness and exercise it is time we came out of the 70's and figured out a better means for testing a Soldier's fitness. And while we're at it, can we get a decent PT uniform? One from this century? Hello? Dry fit? Moisture wicking? Under Armor or Nike ring a bell? Nah. I'd rather wear a gray garbage bag that says ARMY and a pair of black clown pants.

Under the UCMJ Adultry is a stupid rule it is old and out dated. In the outside world it is not against the law. As long as it is not inside your chain of command, one of your Soldiers who cares. If you are Seperated and start another relationship in the YEAR of seperation that NY requires why is the Soldier punnished?

While FRSA's are a great addtition to Battalions and Brigades, it's my understanding that here at Drum, if you are hired as a FRSA, you can no longer be active in your own FRG in a leadership position. All this does is take away the best people from their own FRG. Maybe this can be revisited if true.

I agree with many comments on here, especially the beret. But I would add how stupid the "no umbrella" rule is. Not that we wear the Class A uniform much with the current OPTEMPO, but when we do, we should do all we can to keep it clean and dry. Just allow a professional looking, simply black umbrella.

All
I am back in Iraq after a great R&R leave with my family. There are some great responses to this question - thanks as usual for responding. I will get staff working on a number of these that we control
Will get some fresh questions up this coming week.

(Moderator Comment: The CG will host his next online chat session on 5 April @ 1900 Baghdad time in the Lima Charlie Chat Room.)

The dumbest rule the Army has is no hazing.

The Army sets up numerous roadblocks that prevent soldiers such as myself from volunteering for combat deployments. I enlisted for 2 years, 4 months, and considered that plenty of time to be deployed because of the current strain on military forces. When the opportunity wasn't presented to me, I sought it myself. Nothing came of it and now I am set to be discharged in a short while.

As I joined the Army I thought to myself, "if me, a single soldier with not many outside commitments, can take the place of just one soldier who is sick of deploying, who has a spouse and kids to worry about, I will feel satisfied with my Army experience." This is not happening, and I will not re-enlist just to continue to deal with the Army's foolishness. It's time for me to move on with my life and remember the Army as a waste of my time.

We should let "sleeping dogs lie" (pun intended), but I could not resist responding to "Jen's" post where she stated:

"3. Not allowing certain breeds of dogs in housing is one of the most asinine things I have heard. Dogs only act out when provoked."

Absolutely UNTRUE.

Animals do NOT have to be "provoked" to impulsively attack or respond aggressively.

Perhaps it's time for the Fort Drum Veterinary Clinic to hold mandatory "pet briefings" in order for families to live on post with pets.

First "myth" to debunk? Why dogs bite (and cats, btw).

I have seen, first hand, two horrifying dog attacks where the victim was doing NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. Victim #1: 11 yr old boy, genitals "punctured" by unprovoked attack by a bull terrier (that was on a leash). Victim #2: 9 yr old girl's kneecaps eaten OFF by 2 loose pitbulls - she was on her bike in front of her house, the dogs had escaped from their backyard.

Sometimes it's a scent the dog picks up on, a person's body language or movement, or maybe it's the color of jacket someone's got on that "triggers" the aggressive response. Who knows.

But to say that animals only attack when provoked is the perfect example of animal behavior ignorance.

Stupid rule: That there IS no rule that pet owners must attend a mandatory pet-responsibility briefing, have pet liability insurance, and (regardless of breed) have to have their pets go through temperament testing in order to live in on-post housing.

*We pet owners should also have to pay a pet deposit - I have no problem with it as a responsible pet owner myself.

Something was said about Soldiers owning pets in housing. I wish to further clarify that statement. Soldiers know they have to PCS every fews years. That said, Soldiers owning pets, period, is and should be a no-go.

Please let us do away with the shaving profile. I'm tired of seeing soldiers walk around with perfectly shaped growth yet say they can't shave due to a medical issue. It looks horrible and extremely unprofessional.

Sergeants Time Training allows those MOS's that do not do Warrior Drills everyday at their job to sustain their knowledge and execution of it. Some MOS's cannot just take a day from their normal routine and do waterproofing, or land navigation mounted or dismounted. Some have offices to run that provide support to the Soldiers such as medical, finance, personell, legal. The size of the support elements is a fraction of a regular sized BN or Company. They may be SME or close to it at our jobs because they do it everyday but they aren't doing movement drills or warrior tasks.

I may be a little off topic with this one. I'm not sure who decides when to hold the Balls, but Christmas time is not a sensible time, if others are expected to attend. I can't tell you how many times my husband has taken "heat" because we did not want to waste money on a Ball. Personally, I would rather use whatever extra money we have on our children. I prefer not to put a dent in our savings for a silly dance. If the commanders want more people to attend they should consider scheduling the Balls in late January, early February, when people have their tax return, and are not at that very moment, living paycheck to paycheck.

I also don't understand the logic in bullying soldier's into donating money from their pay every month. Sure, it is just a few dollars, but it is appalling to ask those who are barely scraping by, to give to a charity. Especially one we all know really only benefits those higher up in rank.

*insert breed of dog*
Dog bites kid in housing.
Kid goes to the ER and gets several PAINFUL shots and stitches.
Nothing is done to the dog because tests are negative for whatever disease.
Parent is discontent and the kid is now scared of dogs.

What's the point?

IT'S YOUR CHILD!!!
I understand this...why don't the rest of you?

If a 65lb dog bites my 40lb kid its not my child's fault.

Morever, and off the 'biting' topic, I don't believe Soldiers in post housing deserve to have pets. Seen Craig's list? Too many animals are being given away because of PCS orders. In my world, one animal is too many to be just given away... If you don't think you can take care of the animal for the duration of its lifespan, then you shouldn't be able to own one, let alone 'known' viscous breeds of dogs. Perhaps this topic (owning) should be further addressed when concerning pets in housing. Pets are NOT a fashion statement or a status symbol, they should be a lifetime member of the family and a responcibility.

Like many decorations this one has gotten terribly screwed up. Good intent poor execution.

I don't understand why a GO can can a CAB but not a CIB?? Give them the CIB they deserve.

As for SGTs Time, Soldiers should be trained five days a week so I'm not sure why we need a "special time" set aside.

Sir,bring back Sergeants Time Training/Family time once a week. Such as on Thursday for example, make first formation 0700 in ACU's with full battle rattle and have Sergeants Time from 0700-1200, break for an hour of lunch, and then from 1300-1430 finish up training and any admin stuff and release for Family Time/time to conduct appointments. I have come across too many Soldiers that are not taught the basics anymore AT BASIC training, having SGT's Time back would help restore some of this I think. Also sir, can we get rid of the "shaving profile" I mean I hate shaving too but I do it, and the sensitive skin thing would go away if you actually got your face used to shaving. And also in this day in age of computers with spell check, start using it people. I find it hard to take someone serious when they can't spell simple words.

Breed Ban Comments:

The breed ban IS a stupid rule - HOWEVER:

1. All dogs can bite and do damage, however, certain breeds have the ability to inflict deadly force via the ppsi their jaws are capable of creating (square jawed breeds: Rotties, Pits, Bull Terrier,etc). Chihuahuas can bite you, but they cannot kill you.

2. SOME breeds have the instinct for aggression. It won't matter if they were family pets, raised around dozens of children - if they have the instinct to protect, their behavior cannot be predicted. Ever. Even the best trained dogs can get a bad feeling, and bite impulsively. It's mother nature, and temperament IS genetic!!

3. Temperament testing would be a fair compromise, however, I also believe that pet owners should be REQUIRED TO CARRY LIABILITY INSURANCE if they wish to have their "banned breed pet" in on-post housing.

A few things....(Of course)

1. James is right. It is ridiculous that divorced soldier's have to lose part of their retirement to their spouse. I think the ONLY time this should be imposed is when the divorce was the result of the soldier committing adultery. I know a wife who repeatedly cheated on her spouse, he divorced her, now she will be receiving a good portion of his pay.

2. "Golden Dragon Past" makes a valid point. Plenty of wives cheat on their husbands, yet nothing is done to them. Many times they are rewarded with a portion of their husband's pay. (As stated above)

3. Not allowing certain breeds of dogs in housing is one of the most asinine things I have heard. Dogs only act out when provoked. Fewer attacks would happen if parents would teach their children respect of others property. I had to yell at a neighbors child for hitting my dog with a stick. First of all, he shouldn't have been in MY yard. Second of all, he should know better than to hit an animal. My kids know not to wander into other people's yards without their permission. If a dog bit one of my children while my children were in my yard, then there would be a problem. If my children wander into another person's yard and gets bitten by their dog, that is my problem for not keeping an eye on them.

4. We have all read the little notices that go out a few times a year reminding parents of the supervision rules for children of different ages while playing outside. I have NEVER in fifteen years of living in housing, seen those rules enforced. I don't know how many times I have had to hit the brakes to avoid a TODDLER running into the road without a parent in site. I am not going to mention the country these kid's mom's hail from because that will cause drama, but those women seem to think it is okay for their child to be outside unsupervised at the age of two. I don't want to criticize those women because maybe that is normal where they are from, but someone needs to fill them in on the dangers and the ignorance in allowing their toddler's to be outside unsupervised.

5. That beret needs to go.

6. I don't know if things have changed, but I know the last time I lived at Drum, BAH was used for child support for divorced soldier's. What really irritated me was the fact that the soldier still received housing, even though they don't have custody of their children. In fact, most of them don't ever have their children visit them.

The OER system is broken. Raters having profiles that only allow them to give "x" amount of ACM's is akin to a teacher looking at his class and saying, "O.k. class, you've all done A+ work - but unfortunately, I can only give an "A" to 2 of you." Why is it not possible for more than a "few" officers to have done exemplary work? By the time officers are 03's, they're "getting it" and thinking "why bother?" Maybe that's why they're opting out?

To the person who whined about his adultery charge: Adultery isn't just about shacking up with someone else when you're married, it's about (a) breaking an OATH (Legally AND spiritually), (b) deceit, and (c) trust. All qualities that soldiers are required to possess. If you'll cheat on your spouse, will you cheat the Army, too? Food for thought. I know many MANY soldiers (all ranks) whose commanders sweep the infidelities under the nearest rug.

Perhaps the Army's adultery rules are "stupid" and need to be tweaked - because they are clearly inconsistent?

(Moderator Comment: Company grade officer OERs do not reflect senior rater profiles.)

Major General Oates,

I am PCS'ing overseas. I cleared CIF, and found that I had more than a duffle bag of old equipment. Most of it is out of use because it is in either the BDU pattern or replaced by new equipment. CIF would not take it because they have not been given the authority to receive it back into their inventory.

My space for storage overseas is very limited. Why must I provide storage for the army's old inventory?

I would appreciate a review of the current policy.

In theater, the one change I would like to see is TF Mountain Soldiers be allowed to wear the boonie. The boonie protects your ears and neck from exposure from the sun (sunburn), therefore should be authorized for wear in duty uniform.

My ex-wife got me court martialed for adultery. After having agreed that our marriage was over and we would not continue it, she got the chain of command to pursue this. When I tell people in the civilian world about my 11 year career and then why I got kicked out they are appalled that this can actually be done. It is not a punishable offense in the real world. In a time of war to court martial me for adultery and let drug addicts and drunk drivers remain in the Army with a minor pennance, AR15.

Off topic but Former Platoon Daddy is right on the money!!!

Actually you receive a debt letter as well as an advanced warning on your LES if you have an indebtness on your LES. Usually you will see an advanced debt 30-60 days prior to the debt actually coming out. While the finance office does make mistakes, it's not always their fault. Soldiers are over paid and don't check their LES bi monthly and don't say anything. Soldiers don't follow instructions to claim any advances they received during TDY and are paid twice for their entitlements.
Finance just doesn't decide who is entitled to what pay. It's called the DODFMR, or the JFTR or the JTR. Like everyone else, they have regulations to follow and they are pecuniarily responsible for payments they make and authorized. So if someone has been found to be overpaid, finance is justified to take the monies back and their is always a warning on the LES of a debt, so it just won't come out of the blue.

*this isn't quite an answer to the topic discussion but to blast Finance isn't fair. Perhaps you can send this to the email this poster has*

I gotta tell ya, folks, I have smoked plenty of my Soldiers and have yet to be put in front of my CSM for it. Fair and impartial are not just words in pretty prose. We have power to deny, we have power to priviledge, we have power to promote, and we have power to reduce as well. Good behavior and bad behavior both warrant attention, it's up to us, the NCO Corps, to reward them fittingly. It's up to the individual NCO to know the scope of his or her authority.

The tape test that the army uses to determine if a soldier is within tolerance for bodyfat percentage is wildly inacurate and can vary wildly depending on who does it. I personally witnessed someone get disqualified from a soldier of the quarter board because the person taping them taped them to being one percent over the limit when the very day before our 1SG taped the soldier at two percent under. Please explain to me how having a bigger neck correlates into having less body fat?

I don't beleive we are protecting our soldiers with certain "additions" to leave and pass policies. I believe that because soooo many Soldiers have screwed up in the past that now, Leaders are the ones that need the protection. Too many Soldiers have blaimed Leaders for their shortcomings sooooo, Leaders feel the need to try to 'cover their six!' Makes sence to me! Why not? PV2 Joe Snuffy don't care that SGT Shineyboots went to bat for his Soldier... Joe's worried about how he's gettin' to Syracuse!! Think of the 10% of the population mentioned earlier.

You can't "make" a soldier care. The Soldier has to have the desire to do the right thing. If that's not there, Soldiers are going to continue to be required to "check the box." Imagine, an Army where 90% of Leader's time and effort are NOT spent on 10% of our Soldiers, NOW THAT would be something!!!!

There is no single worse mentality in the Army than the institutionally endorsed lack of individual responsibilty. Nothing is Joe or Jane's fault any longer. Everything is a leadership failure, or it becomes the leaders responsibility to ensure even the most brainless things are accomplished. Was I there when PVT Snuffy bounced that check, beat his wife, got high, got drunk, jumped on a gator without his PT belt, eye pro, Mitch and gloves?

Saftey, humph, don't even get me started!

I get it to a point though. We don't want a soldier to get frostbite for example, but damnit when it's 30 below zero outside, you'd think even the dullest among us has the sense to wear a hat and gloves. We owe it to our Soldiers to keep them informed, not to dress them. Instead of a Soldier simply finding the clarity of a cold hard reality, the entire chain of command has to walk the carpet.

We need to get out of the nanny business.

How about we start telling soldiers to grow up, and put their NCO's back to the tasks of being leaders, not escorts to mental health and ADAPC, or even CIF to name a few. When did civilians assume the authority to tell our NCO Corps when and where they have to be with our Soldiers? We already check their engine oil levels on holidays. What's next I wonder?

As a Platoon Sergeant in charge of more than 65 Soldiers at any given time, I regularly found myself running the day to day operations that my E5's and E6's should have been, but oh, my bad, they were forced by some petty policy to haul their problem Soldiers to bandaid kneejerk response appointments incurred by their misbehaviors.

Stop the madness! Hold the right feet to the fire. There is no good in sending the message to Soldiers that their situations are not of their own doings. We are not making responsible Soldiers or even adults by holding their hands. Taking care of Soldiers is NCO business, but it is my opinion that business needs an institutional bailout!

I understand that everyone in the unit should be on a duty roster for Charge of Quarters however for those that live off post, why do we ask them to mow the lawn and shovel the snow for those living in the barracks? I'd like to know when they will create a roster to shovel my driveway and mow my lawn. Just a thought.

I know this is not the forum to critique others answers but, first you should be required to be accurate, and second this shouldn't be the forum to complain on your spouse's behalf. If as a spouse you are so unhappy about the "rules" maybe the Army is not the place for you. Additionally, if your spouse has convinced you all he can do is write a counseling statement for his Soldiers he needs to go back and read a policy or two. I wonder when he may have corrected a Soldier who was downtown out of uniform or on post playing their music too loudly. I guess never since he probably wasn't armed with a counseling statement.

I am all for this forum but not so I can just read complaints. There is a lot of good that can come from this forum if used properly.

We all know there are plenty of "stupid rules" but I'd just like to see some of the rules that do make sense enforced. For instance the last time I looked the green or black knit cap isn't authorized off post but I still see it every day and don't blame it on the temperature since I see it when it is 50 degrees plus outside.

Thanks

(Moderator Comment: We agree. We would prefer to see substantive comments vice abject complaints. But in the spirit of transparency and in keeping with the policy we ourselves have set, we attempt to print as much of every relevant comment as possible that adheres to the rules - spelling and grammar errors included. We also hope the blog community will engage in the necessary "self-correcting" to keep us all on track.)

Wow have things changed since I was in, in the 70's. What an awesome forum for information and improvement.
Besides pay issues, the PT test seams the most baffling. Both my kids are in the Army, my son is just returning form his second tour of duty in Iraq. as a heavy wheeled vehicle mech. he has changed 25 tractor trailer tires a day in the hot desert sun, driven the recovery truck on missions thru out Iraq days and weeks on the road, but has trouble passing the PT test, as such after 8 years in the reserve's his still a Sp 4. My Daughter on the other hand, max's her PT tests and has set a records for a ruck march at a southwestern post but, could she throw truck tires around all day?, (She probably would just to prove it), although many in his unit couldn't do it. My point is yes every soldier is a warrior, but shouldn't the PT test for promotion purposes, have some relation to their work?
As far as the Beret goes give it up yea we know all the issues surrounding it but if that's all you've got to complain about, life is good count your blessings.

First, I would definitely agree that the beret is a useless uniform item. It serves no purpose other than decoration. My eyes and face could use some protection from the sun and rain in a garrison environment just like they do in the field.

Second, I would like to comment about Soldiers being "persecuted" for their injuries on Fort Drum. For anyone to suggest such a rule exists is ridiculous. It seems SOME (but not all) Soldiers pending med boards tend to forget that the UCMJ still applies to them and like to take advantage of their status to commit some serious offenses. Soldiers, injured or healthy, should still be held accountable for their actions by their chain of command and I think that is what is happening here. I think a policy of leniency for SERIOUS UCMJ offenders due to some injury would be considered a stupid rule.

The majority of courts-martial that happen around here obviously don't include Soldiers pending med boards. If they did, wouldn't most of the courts-martial on Fort Drum come from our Warriors in Transition unit?

I solidly do believe in the Army having a Weight Control policy, and I believe the body composition standards (percentages) are close to being right for the respective ages.

Where I do think improvements should be made are in the initial height and weight screening tables. I am not sure the yaer of their origin, but I would venture to say the "average" person has changed since then.

Where can I find this "Seniors going after soldiers for being medical boarded." Policy? I have obviously failed to stay up to date on my policy awareness, because I have completely failed to enforce this one!

I would have to say the number one worst would be the black berets, many of the soldiers at ft drum dont know how to wear them PROPERLY, they dont realize what those black berets mean, they didnt earn them stick with the pc's!Another ridiculous rule would be the promotion point system, how can one mos just have to show up where another you can work your butt off and still NOTHING, talk about double standards. OR another stupid rule would have to be the use of the open door policy, how about we get a real system that WORKS! I think maybe if some of these simple little "rules"/regulations were changed morale would sky rocket, which would be great the army can always benefit from better morale!
Good luck trying to look into making things better MG Oates.

Seniors going after soldiers for being medical boarded. They act like its the soldiers fault that they are injuried. They don't understand, you can't fake many injuries. And these soldiers recieve Article 15 and Court martials, because the chain of command are pissed that they can't deploy.....But at Fort Drum, I bet this will never change. Nine out of ten soldiers going thru a Court Martial are being med boarded, and no one never thought to ask why????

(Moderator Comment: Would appreciate some factual verification of the "nine out of ten" claim.)

Didn't GENERAL SHINSEKI implement the Beret? 4 Stars, highly decorated, the one that said from the beginning we needed more troops for the initial push into Iraq... I'm sure he sits in an office now as he retired as was chosed to head the Department of...VA? I forget.

I agree with 7 different pieces of paper needed for a pass. While I understand protecting the Soldier, the DA31 and vehicle inspection sheet should be adequate. NCO asking where the Soldier is going and to drive safe, here's my number etc.

Yes ex-spouses eligibility to your retirement is ridiculous.

There are so many that I will return. Just wanted to comment on the Beret thing.

The lack of a rule might be the issue here. The most demoralizing experience I ever experienced in my career involved the No Pay Due on the LES. These were always caused by a clerical error at finance, but I never received notice of any of them until I got the LESs. About two weeks later I got the notices saying, in effect, "By the way, you're about to get a No Pay Due." One time it took me about a year of wrangling before it got staightened out, all of which could have been avoided if only I'd been given fair warning beforehand. I don't fault the finance people for making the errors, just the system for not giving the soldier the chance to head off the problem before it occurs. I know one guy whose net pay was $10 one year right before Christmas. He said that a finance official decided he'd been paid too much compensation for his PCS move and took it all back in one swoop. That's just cruel.

The Promotion Point System is stupid an 11B has to just show up to work and poof E5 to make E5 in almost any other MOS its like E6 points that should be revised to a better system

Yep, it's misspelled... The beret is an absolutely USELESS piece of gear. Sure it looks good, but it's pretty obvious that the one's that made it policy to wear this piece of gear in an everyday work uniform(ACU/BDU), sits in an office and doesn't see the light of day! Or, more importantly, they forgot where they came from...
Next...
It's 90 degrees with a humitity of about 99%. Soon as Joe Snuffy steps out the house and to the car (or Company/Battalion areas) he is soaked. Now he spends the rest of the day with his uniform sticking to him. Let's TALK about moral. The ACU is NOT comfortable for ANY kind of weather. It doesn't insulate in cold weather (so let's pile on layers) and it doesn't let off steam, so keep your sleeves down!! Please, Let's roll our sleeves back up, this is getting rediculous. Really, how many sunburn cases were out there before this particular debacle. With that, what 'real' purpose does this serve? Roll them down if you have to go on mission out of the wire... But when we're back in 'relative' safety.... well, horse is beaten. Personally, I'm a klutz and I'M tired of my sleeves catching on everything from humvee doors to office supplies. Once again, it feels like a policy that came from somebody that doesn't have to constantly hoist 120lbs worth of gear in a garrison environment, doesn't matter what rank or slot you have, EVERYBODY works in the Army I'm in!!...policy makers forgetting where they came from...
Okay, now the horse is beaten and has now ceased to draw breath.

(Moderator Comment: No horse is too dead to beat.)

I was very upset with the new rule for certain type of dogs being banned on the installation. Pets grow up with a family and I believe they act the way they are raised. If you treat them mean more than likely they will be aggressive. Instead of banning a "certain" breed of dogs I believe each pet that arrives on the base should be given an aggressive test. If the dog doesn't demonstate any signs of aggressive behavior the family should be allowed to keep their pet. If it is aggressive then they will need to give the dog up.
I feel really bad for the kids and all family members who have a loving dog and because of a few they have to part with it because of a new policy.. Think this needs to be re-looked at. Just my opinion

PT outside -20 in Alaska (Officers inside the hanger)

Weekend duty: Water the garden at the General's house every hour and a half, (it was a rainy day)

I would have to say the stupidest policy set forth by the Army is not being able to punish soldiers for their wrongs. My husband is an E-6 and so many nights he is either home late or at home and typing counselings because it is the only punishment he is allowed to give when his soldiers break the rules/disrespect other NCOs. When did it becoming Army policy that you should be soft on soldiers so as to not hurt their feelings or cause them undo stress. I mean seriously isn't war stressful and aren't all of the rules and regulations put in place to ultimately help save lives in war. I don't know how many times my husband has had to watch soldiers act out and all he can do is waste his time on typing yet another worthless counseling statement which does nothing. It is time that the NCOs are allowed to lead these soldiers...Maybe then the DUIs and suidide rates would go down again.

If a civilian dies we entrust our family will be notified within a reasoanble period of time. Yet many servicemember's deaths are held up because of the notification process set by the Department of the Army. I would want to know with in minutes if not seconds of the [passing of a loved one. Get it out in a timely manner. This rule is absurd in my opinion.

Then once they notify you there is a string of information that the Army feels necessary to get from you in that initial notification or within 24 hours in order to process the funeral and burial wishes of the family. Where will you be residing the next few weeks, what kind of burial hand you thought about, becareful dependent upon how you answer (if explained at all) can have a huge monetary affect on what you get and whats paid for. Nice. Pay for anything related to that funeral. They deserve that al least.

(Moderator Comment: This post was edited in accordance with the Blog Comment policy.)

We ask our soldiers to go to WAR, but we make them request a PASS to drive beyond a 70 mile radius of the base?
They should be able to drive wherever they want just as long as they are back by the next duty day. Enough of the babysitting / micromanagement.

As alluded to in past comments, the beret should only be worn as a cover in a dress uniform. The soft cover provided an excellent protection from the sun and rain. It appears the Army is mixing apples and oranges. If you want to copy the French, serve more French fries.

When I was in and I am now retired, we had a saying "A Soldier is not happy unless he/she is complaing".

I would say the whole "add to, but not take away" ranks up there as one of the most stupid rules, at least in regards to Army regulations. I mean anyone who has seen things "added to" knows that those additions often "take away". So what's the point? Oh and the word "faddish" should be stricken from the books because who determines what is a fad or not?

Also, those new Army dress uniforms are pretty stupid, but they aren't a rule, so I guess that is a whole other ball of wax.

How much paperwork really NEEDS to be submitted with a DA31? At one point to submit a DA31 one would have to attach, a seperate leave request, POV online risk assessment, a detailed rest plan (if driving),POV inspection form (flying or not), plane reservations (if flying), a safety pledge, strip map to the leave address (even if not leaving post), another personal risk assessment sheet, and finally, an LES, all to ASK to go on leave. Ahh, vacation was needed after rounding up all of that.

It is criminal that we have to pay monthly to ensure our family receives only a portion (55%) of our retirement if we die. Think of all the seriously wounded who may not live a long life after retirement.

People are hung up on dogs, PT belts and caps. Funny. But if you want to talk about a stupid and unbelievably UNFAIR policy, how about addressing a spouse's ENTITLEMENT to a Soldier's retirement pay if they divorce.

My ex-wife didn't work outside the house while we were married - and she didn't want to. I deployed, I worked, I did the JOB (and I'm not complaining about it either). So how in the world does that entitle her to a percentage of my retirement when I retire? There is no civilian job ANYWHERE that forces that kind of stupidity on their employees. Heck, the divorce could be a mutual thing - even HER fault - yet she is still going to get a % of your retirement. And that is ON TOP OF any court-ordered alimony or support. That is just plain stupid. And there is no way anyone can justify that to me with the "Well, she had to travel and endure PCS hardships, etc.," explanation. That's just BS. My ex got to travel around the world, hang out at home for 14 years, cash and spend my paycheck. How many other guys out there in the same boat? Bet there are plenty...

This new "this breed and this breed of dog cant yadayadayada" rule, we have soldiers over seas and we're worried about our next door neighbor having a pit bull? really! Any dog can be classified as "Vitious" so i really dont see why their wasting their time with this new rule.

You should never have to wear the helmet if your not in a combat zone. I was very good at wearing it the very first time. I dont need to train on it. Im a welder I only wear my welding helmet when welding.

By far the PT belt is the dumbest Idea any Army leader has ever had. Our pt uniforms have reflective capabilities. Another addition to my gripe is that certain Batallions have taken on color coordinated pt belts. Officers wear blue, NCO's wear green, and Junior Enlisted wear yellow. This all stems from what our leaders think is a lack of respect because its harder to recognize an officer or nco in PT's. Why do I have to wear the PT Belt in a war zone. Why do I have to wear a belt that makes me more visible. Im in Mosul Iraq right now and we as you know are right on the ciyies edge. We have been fired upon several times I think the pt belt makes me a bigger target.

The policy of hight and weight. If a soldier can pass the PT test, and has a good standing pt history then they should not be scrunitized or started on a chapter. You lose a soldier that probly still wants to be here. Then the policy that should be enforced will/is not and that is the one of quality of soldier we allow to join the military. You got a felony thats OK we'll give you a some training and a weapon to go along with that attitude.
Yes a lot of the unpopular rules are creations of ways to stop "stupid" soldiers. They can't say this person can have a pitbull and this one can. (or what ever breed) The one's with a "bad" dog are typically the one's that are sub-standard soldier.
As far as PT time, look at other post FT. Drum has a late PT time. I guess that you would still want to get dismissed at the same time, and not later. I am not even going to talk about the rain statement. Foot marches and asking soldiers if it really helped them. We will never know because they did it. Who knows how it would have effected them if they didn't. Maybe have some troops do the standard and put them against those who go above the standard. I am not saying that it is fun, but a necessary evil in my opinion.
I would say that if you want a beard don't join the military. It would be to hard to set and apply a standard to everyone. So make it easy and don't allow them.
As with most rules in the military the are exceptions to the rules. As with the Black River... It used to be that you could go rafting as long you were on a guided tour. After doing it, I would say that was a smart thing. As far as swiming not a smart place to do it.
Uniforms have been an issue since there has been uniforms. What makes since to one person doesn't to another. The berets were a bad, bad, bad choice.

There has always what we call a stupid rule and this one is one of them. With the regular bdu cap you had coverage for your head, eyes and it kept the rain off your face. The beret doesn't do any of this and it smells when it rains and takes forever to dry. It offers no sun protection which is hazardous to your health.

Also, the Don' Ask Don't Tell policy is a joke in this day and age. I know that there were gays when I was in the military 30 yrs ago. They did there job and left everyone alone. They too want to serve their country and have feeling for it as do we all. Leave them alone and let them serve with pride.

When I first arrived to Ft. Drum the pass mileage policy was clearly stated 70 miles in writing. Now, I don't seem to be able to find it written in any policy, however the AR has evolved into stating a reasonable distance. Verbally we are told 70 miles is a reasonable distance. I am not sure a one hour drive is a good enough distance for Northern NY. Why not associate with locations, like Saranac Lake to the east, or Buffalo to the west, Binghampton to the south? If Soldiers could venture out in these directions which are all three hours or less without having to get a pass approved the morale for single Soldiers would greatly improve. The opportunities to enjoy free time outside of 70 miles may even assist in more Soldiers reenlisting to stay on Ft. Drum as opposed to being isolated to the small area.

I will agree that the biggest flop of a new policy/reg had to be the beret. We spent millions on berets and values tags and cards at a time when we did not have money for spare parts for vehicles or ammo for ranges.
Honestly it is not so much the basic policies but the piling on. Someone mentioned motorcycles. The basic DOD policy is pretty good. DOT Helmet, over the ankle boots etc. But at each post it seems more and more gets piled on, which in turn makes soldiers not ride on post and therefore not do the riders course. Whic just compounds situations. Just my $.02 but I think there are alot of policies/regs that could be reviewed simplified or done away with.

I was only in for 4 1/2 years before getting medically retired. During that time I saw my platoon go from a group of well trained cohesive hard chargers to mostly a group of lazy whiners, held together loosely by the common bond of enlistment. My batallion was rock solid on our first deployment. By the end of the second things were really falling apart. I saw them leave for their third and I was worried for them all. I guess they did alright, I wasn't there. But boy, things had changed.

During my last year E5s were instructed not to smoke lower enlisted without getting down and pushing with them. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that discipline was instilled in me through lots of physical excercise. It not only worked, it worked well. I have no regrets, I became a much better Soldier by truly learning from my mistakes. There are no lessons being taught to Soldiers now. Writing a counseling doesn't get the point across. There are many empty threats being thrown around. Soldiers know this. Nowdays the junior NCOs have accrued an unreasonable sense of self-entitlement. They don't bother doing their jobs, and those that would are not allowed. NCOs hanging around with lower enlisted is ALWAYS a problem. We weren't allowed when I was a private. By the time I was getting out I saw SGTs with PV2s as best friends. Where do you think these young NCOs are getting this sense of self-entitlement? Many of the senior NCOs seem to be giving up, likely due to the entire loss of standards that they had worked to keep when they were younger. Everything from uniform wear and appearance to the way young Soldiers act towards their leadership. It's all gotten out of control.

Kinder gentler and Army cannot go together. We're in the business of WAR. I was beside apphauled when I was in med-hold, and still see Soldiers (if you can truly call many of them that) at WTU acting like they've got it bad. All this crybaby nonsense is astounding. I was medically retired due to multiple penetrating/perforating trauma from an IED. I had Soldiers with no deployments telling me they were hoping to get medical retirement as well, because their knees hurt! Everyone was telling me I was lucky? Where the heck do they get off? I didn't want to get out. Very few of these Soldiers were legitimately wounded, or seriously injured in the line of duty. They have the same old small complaints Soldiers have had since the dawn of time, only now they burn up an unfathomable amount of tax dollars on them. We not only allow it, we pratically encourage it! I see Soldiers who have never come close to leaving the wire crying about PTSD. Soldiers who have never looked a dead man in the eye, much less a friend, or God forbid a child. These Soldiers don't know PTSD. And most of us that do seem to tolerate it pretty well. Why is that? Because we learned early on that if you wanna be physically and mentally tough, a Soldier, you've got to deal with it! And we are just that.

As for ruck marching. 25 miles is nothing. Look at Operation Mountain Resolve, Mountain Viper, Anaconda, and our boys are about to go do it again in remote areas of Afghanistan. We walked for days. Those days aren't behind us. That is why we are LIGHT infantry!

The only stupidity I see is validating these weak complaints. These should not even be tolerated, let alone validated. My stomache turns as I read some of these responses. These Soldiers should've joined the peace corps. They're in the wrong place coming to Ft. Drum!

Climb To Glory, Deeds Not Words.

Doc Wags

Sir,
Definitely got to go back to Patrol Cap. But the stupid rule, making us wear our sleeves down in the hot sun. In fact just let us take our shirts off when it gets hot. Yeah, yeah, skin cancer! That’s why they make sun block.

0700 IS WAY TO EARLY TO DO ANY KIND OF TRAINING NOT INCLUDING THE TIME IT TAKES THE SOLDIER TO GET HIMSELF DRESSED AND KIDS IF THEY HAVE ANY AND TAKE THEM TO THE BABYSITTERS AND NOT TO MENTION SNOW OR 3MILE LONG LINES. MOST OFF POST SOLDIERS ARE UP AT 0430 AND IF YOUR NOT AT THE MAIN GATE BY 0615 FORGET ABOUT IT.. WHY NOT PT 3 DAYS A WEEK AND SEE HOW MORE PRODUCTIVE YOUR SOLDIERS WILL BE WHWN THEY ARE NOT SLEEP DEPRIVED AND STRESSED OUT

(Moderator Comment: Your subject says 0600 PT; you mention 0700 in your comment. To clarify for our readers - PT at Fort Drum is 0700-0800.)

This may not be a rule, but running in formation was among the dumbest things I ever did in the Army. It's humiliating to those who can't keep up. It's boring to those who run well and can barely get a pulse going because of the slow pace. And it's injurious to those who can't run their natural stride for having to stay in step. The head of a physical therapy clinic in Korea once told me, "We get more customers from people running in formation than anything else." These battalion "fun" runs can't be a lot of fun to anyone but the battalion commander out there leading the troops while everyone else behind him is sounding off and pretending to have a good time. The Army tried to go to running in ability groups years ago. Whatever happened to that?

There are only two stupid rules that were mentioned; the beret thing vs the soft cap. The soft cap has a viser to the sun out of your eyes a definate plus when you need to see ie.driving etc...
The dont ask, dont tell policy was enacted to apease a segment of the population. Not saftey for anyone.

The rest of the issues presented for the most part are saftey related issues. A dog bites neigbor-policy gets enacted. People drown in the black river, and that happens every summer. My wifes father used to be a rescue diver and has fished many bodys out of it. Swimming is prohibited, not all the other things listed, go have fun and enjoy the north country, but do it safley.

pt in the rain wont change-we go to war in the rain

your protective gear wont fit if you are unshaven

walking with cell phones are dangerous, nothing was funnier than watching a young female soldier walk into the 50ft flag pole outside of clark hall. She could have walked into traffic?

Privates Hanging out with NCOS. The Army rules are so stupid I cant believe I dident go awol in my term of service. If you bring a hole bunch oh pv1 through PFC together in a bar you will probably have trouble. Do you think it would be the same if thier squad leader was thier or team leader? No they would be on thier best behavior and also gain respect for thier NCOS because they see they are real people. I know a couple people who went to jail for hanging out with thier privates it's rediculous. I understand if a relationship is involved it could cause problems but on the other hand I think allowing this would stop a lot of problems.

Change the uniform and guidlines every other year. Not cost effective for anyone except for the manufacturer of the uniforms. Have to buy new, have them tailored, have all the insignias and crap sewn on. A great deal of time and money is spent on a new design of the uniform.

Although it is not the worst rule I've seen, why is it that Soldiers aren't authorized to wear the Boonie Cap in Iraq, but I see Cav Soldiers wearing their stetsons around Victory? And if they are okay, can I start wearing cowboy hats, a nice stovepipe top hat or a mantilla?

Also, I notice quite a lot of high-ranking officers and NCOs have taken to sitting outside of their CHUs with their shirts off, catching some sun. Is it cool for the privates to do that too?

I can see a 12 miler--no big deal. Mandatory 6 milers every week--not a big deal either. But a mandatory 25 mile road march in full body armor with assault pack--what purpose does this serve? This is a 10 hour event, not to mention all the 12 and 15 mile train-ups that compete with better training events. We're going to be good at foot marching, but at what cost? Ask re-deploying Soldiers if this event really led them to doing better in OEF/OIF, or if some other event would have been more productive.

No one thinks of this now---but what is the cost to health care later when the Army ends up paying for knee replacements and back surgeries? No one cares about this until they have to get one of these surgeries and/or they have to pay the ever increasing retiree tricare premiums this is causes. The Army's current fix....stop whining and do it......this is truly stupid.

What ever happened to being able to Drop a soldier for a minor offenses and smoke him/her to get the point across? With the policy of not being able to drop a soldier, the NCO corp lost some of it's authority! Now soldiers can do what they want and pretty much get away with it! They just sit back and take a counseling statement. OOOOHHHHH scare me. Soldiers now are looking at NCOs like they are nothing. Let the NCO do his/her job keeping soldiers in line, don't commanders have enough to do without giving Art 15s for dumb stuff. With this being the Year of the NCO, bring back that authority to them. Used to be you were scared of the NCO, now he is just a higher payed private like the rest of them!

Actually glad i retired!

By far the stupidest policy.

Don't ask Don't Tell would have to be the stupidest Policy. The army in general is dated and needs to get up with the times. The no talking and walking on the cell phone rule is a bit ridiculous. The banned Breed dog rule is absolutely ridiculous i know that’s just a fort drum thing. No wearing specific things after certain hours. The fact that some Chum that out ranks you is still capable of telling you what to do of the military base. In the Civilian world that’s a total no no. Working long hours and still getting the same crap salary and no over time. The list could continue but I’m tired. the size of the Army in the U.S is un needed in general. Before WWII the U.S Army consisted of 200,000 people, since then we have entered a permanent war economy and build our army so that not only the army is huge but we have created wasteful private industries so manufacture and build anf maintain the army. We are losing our credibility to the rest of the world. Not to mention the wasteful things the army does, paper paper and more paper!

The Beret. Worthless as headgear. Offers no protection from rain or sun. Bring back the cap.

Excellent question!!! I'd love to know how this one came up!!!
After a period of time in this "green machine," I've thought there were waaay too many (rule's and policies) to count!
now...
There is no "stupid" rule or policy in today's Army. As it turns out, there's 10% (and I'm being kind) of our fine men and women that are screwing it up for the rest of us, that are trying to do the right thing!!

For example, a soldier kills him/herself in a motorcycle accident. After an investigation, its ruled that if said Soldier was wearing his or her helmet, they woulda/coulda/ and shoulda lived... Insert helmet policy here.

As a Soldier, I realize that our policies are set to protect and guide our nations men and women in uniform to accomplish the mission. The Army is awsome!! Everthing comes with an instruction manual!!! That said, there are those out there that will argue that "I'm too old"... "I know better"... or "That's just plain crazy!!" about whatever guideline. Watch out! They might be "that person" who will find a new and incredible way to screw up.

Insert new policy to handcuff smokers to outside, shelterless ashtrays!

In conclusion, there are no stupid rules OR policies... only bonehead soldiers (10%!!) that keep trying to find ways to get over on the system or keep hurting themselves.

Lets see how about when we could only wear the watch cap under a helmet, we could never wear it as a stand alone head gear or when we had to wear the fleece under our uniform top, I can remember when we had the old plastic wet weather top and we had to wear it under our BDU top's LOL, because it was too noisy. Luckily I think the Army has gotten a lot better about stupid rules at least regarding uniform wear.

I was told there is a rule that Fort Drum soldiers are forbidden to be in or around the Black River. I was shown an "offical" handbook about two years ago where it was printed. This rule appears to have its roots in a fatal drowning many years ago. I believe the Black River is an amazing local resource that sits on Fort Drum's backdoor. Soldiers and their families' use of the Black River could greatly enhance opportunities for outdoor recreation (rafting, kayaking, fishing...), team building activities and overall quality of life (running trails, family outing, group events).

I don't know if this is an actual Army rule or just a post rule but the fact that soldiers are removed from the home and treated as a criminal for simply having an argument with their spouse is really "stupid". I'm not really sure how this is actually solving the problem the couple is having or just putting it on the back burner for future discussion. Lets face it...EVERYONE argues with their spouse, but why remove them from the quarters? Why not just let them work out the problem? Police have their hands tied because they have to follow the regulation set forth even though they don't even agree with it. Thats why this is the STUPIDEST Army rule.

1. Design Build contracting. Doesn't save any money and gets less for the money spent.

2. IA policy in general. I know we're under attack but the controls we're under restrict productivity to the point we would be better off with out computers and a network. Net win for the bad guys. Instead of building thicker walls shouldn't we shoot back? If it was a fire fight I bet you'd want the boys to make the bad guys duck.

3. 35 miles and hour on Gas Alley... Sheesh...

No beards.

Doing PT in the rain.

Sir,
I would say that the policy of conducting announced "inspections" by command staff is errant and foolhearty. The purpose of an inspection is to observe how a unit is run and to make recommendations upon how operations and policies could be improved. When an entity announces it's intention to conduct an inspection, this allows for the unit in question to prepare for it's arrival by "cleaning up it's act".
When this situation occurs, an equitable and subjective inspection is impossible, as you are only "inspecting" a gilded version of reality. We know this as the great "dog and pony show". All things that were incorrect with the unit have been corrected temporarily during your inspection. Given time they slowly revert back to the status quo.
The only solution is to start surprise inspections. This should be done not to punish or catch a unit in a "gotcha!" moment, but rather that situations can be observed and assessed within the scope of reality.
If Command Staff presume operations are conducted in their absence in the same manner as in their presence, they are mistaken. This is akin to the deranged Adolf Hitler shuffling nonexistant brigades around on a map in the Eagle's Nest. A realistic picture must be developed, and in so doing will save time, energy and resources.

In todays society it takes both husband an wife to work. When you go overseas to Germany, Hawaii anywhere where your allowed to ship a POV. The government only allows one POV, and if you want to ship another you pay for this or you have to buy another vehicle over there. I understand that this is one of the rules people always complain about shipping one POV and its stupid.
I have seen where one soldier who is an E4 living in Germany with a pregnant wife in a leased housing 30 KM away from the base an he take the care to PT and to work and they couldn't afford a 2nd vehicle, what happens if she needed to go the hospital in an emergency? This is just a thought.

The beret replacing the softcap. That was just dumb. Anyone who has been a Soldier for more than a few years knows just how dumb that was and still is, from a practical and policy standpoint.

And honestly, the beret is a French contraption. Why on Earth would we take anything military in nature from the guys whose last sucessful battlefield commander shares his name with a three-flavored ice cream?

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