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Where Is The Money Going?


Despite record increases in pay and bonuses over the last 5 years, many of our Soldiers are racking up large debt balances.

Why is that and is there a way we can help?

Comments (14)

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Bounses and Increase
14 Saturday, 08 November 2008 05:26
Tiffany
Not all Soldiers get bounses. I got my first one for reenlisting. 75% of mine went into my TSP. I also have a college degree and debt, a car payment almost paid off, and debt from my previous marriage. Yes we have had an increase in pay, but $100 a month really doesn't amount to much when consumer prices are also on the rise. At the moment my extra pay goes to my TSP. Most of my money goes to my car payment and student loans. Insurance payments are going up too also with the increase in economy. With my extra money I have to replace my uniforms a once a year allowance of a couple hundred dollars doesn't replace but one uniform. With PTs, Class A's and these new ACUs I'm spending a lot of money to keep up my uniforms to make sure they stay professional when I'm in the rear. The velcro goes out so quick on the pockets and you can't just buy the pants you have to buy a new top there goes $120 dollars. Then add in food and gas prices even on post I'm left with little over $100 to cover me in an emergency. Financial classes are great, but the military is still behind in the public in our pay. Yes our benefits are great and I'd pay a lot more for heatlth issues if I wasn't in the military. Also you have to add in things like tennis shoes. In a year I spend almost $300 on tennnis shoes alone for PT. Depending on your foot you have to have a special shoe and not all shoes are made equal. You buy cheap shoes and you'll have foot problems this includes boots. Not everyone fits into the Army issue boots and some of us have to buy our own. I do see alot of irresponsibleness with money, but I also chock it up to young Soldiers just now on their own. I know in college I had to learn on my own how to budget, and no matter what someone told me it didn't make a difference I thought I was smarter than everyone else. Some people have to learn the hard way.
Show Me The Money
13 Friday, 07 November 2008 12:41
Stephanie
First, let me say that I have a business degree specializing in finance and am currently training as a financial counselor. I have sat through the Budgeting class twice now with Jennifer and have, myself, found useful information I didn't know before. There is PPT, but as the instructor, she engages the soldiers and spouses by asking questions and giving additional information. They are also, while listening to the class, given work sheets that they fill out with their own information (with us helping as needed). They effectively leave that class with a budget of their own and information on how to fix their lifestyle issues to make better, more informed decisions. It is truely a wake-up call. You would be surprised at the exclamations from many who are, for the first time, seeing where their money is really going... a lot of it into vending machines, lunches out, and up in smoke. And they truely don't know how to real an LES, which is a serious problem. They need to know what is coming in and what is going out.

Also, it is made very clear that there are other resources to help in additional ways...all free and confidential.

That being said, I have found that many soldiers deploying run into the "I need to get it now before I never have the chance again" senario. It is hard to even imagine the feelings they have about being gone for a year or more, possibly God forbid, not coming back the same or at all. They tend to run out and do and buy everything and cram it all in before depoloyment. Then, when they return, they want to do and get all the things they couldn't do/buy while over there. To top it off, there are so many spouses who just spend while their spouse is gone.

I really think a wake up call will do a lot of these service members and their families a world of good. They really need to see the full view impact of their hasty decisions and uneducated judgement for themselves. The stores aren't going to do it, it would be bad for business. The community, though supportive in many ways, isn't going to do it because they look forward to such revenue too heartily.
ncos arent getting in their soldiers boo boo
12 Thursday, 06 November 2008 20:40
justgotback
i cant tell you how many times ive heard nco's in my platoon say-- im not babysitting grown @$$ men.. or things of that nature.

nco's need to be there when a soldier goes to davidsons chevy and watertown to put down 5 grand from iraq on some huge truck they dont need. they need to be there when the soldier in the barracks wants to buy a 52 inch flat screen.

ncos need to get to know their soldiers. talk to them. theres nothing a young soldier likes to talk about more than what they want. what they ''need''.

just take the time to ask, and be there as a mentor.
More Resources
11 Friday, 24 October 2008 12:41
Jennifer Whiskeyman
It would be great to mandate everyone take finance/budgeting classes, but unfortunately that will never come to pass. There is an additional resource that is being added to our arsenal here at Fort Drum. The Military Family Life Consultants (MFLCs) now have a financial counselor here to help soldiers and families with redeployment finance issues. There is the Soldier and Family Assistance Center for warriors in transition, also. The Army has supplied all the necessary tools, now it is up to the soldier and families to utilize them.

Today I showed up for my weekly budget class and not a single person showed. You can lead a horse to water.....
Financial Crisis
10 Thursday, 23 October 2008 13:37
Becca (1st Brigade Spouse)
As sending all soldiers to these classes sounds like a wonderful idea, what about making something mandatory for spouses? I see so many spouses that make sure they keep up with the in crowd, that they forget the fixed income that we are all on. I blame spouses for a lot of it, because their other halves are gone and they try to fill the emotional void with material things. (It could work that way for the soldiers as well, but I cant speak from that point of view). It's not until you've been around the army long enough that (as a spouse) you learn how the army can take back money for property accountability (Statement of Charges & FLPLS) and as punishment (UCMJ, Reduction Boards, etc). Even a gaffe at finance can leave you with money one month and alot less the next. So many spouses have no idea how it all really works, until it's too late. If spouses were educated with all the "ifs" they might be better prepared and try to save for that rainy day.
Budget
9 Tuesday, 21 October 2008 13:55
CPT Chretien
First, let me say that the idea of the PX as a cause for debt is the equivalent of society letting parents off the hook for misbehaved children. Instead of looking for a solution to the problem, we come up with excuses. The PX is as guilty as the Dodge dealership or even Verizon Cell phones. In my commands, I have seen more Soldiers in debt from a cell phone than anything else. So let's not blame the product (I am fat because MCDs supersized my fries) let's blame a lack of financial education.
ACS has offers great classes on finances and Soldiers need to be made aware of them. As a commander, I failed in that aspect. I did not require financial readiness classes for my Soldiers. I only sent them when it was already too late. So, the first thing we need to do is educate commanders and first sergeant's. I know that the CDR/1SG course introduces the team to the concept of ACS, but doesn't really go into a lot of specific details. If the commander is well informed, the Soldiers will be well informed.
Another way to get the word out is to send Financial Support Teams (FST) to the brigades and battalions. As a Finance Commander, I sent a three Soldier team to a brigade every week to bring finance support to the Soldiers. It worked very well and pay issues went down in our area. Now, Finance Soldiers are not trained to conduct financial counseling. A team would have to be formed, trained and sent out to the Brigades and battalions. Don't wait for the problems to come to you, go to the problem.
Agree
8 Tuesday, 21 October 2008 06:46
MamaWolf in Carthage
I agree with Jennifer that the financial readiness classes are a great and often under utilitized program. Maybe some thought to bringing them to an FRG meeting for some financial planning. Judee has done this in the past and it is a wonderful tool. Soldiers (and spouses) are too often uneducated about the "real" cost of something (the full coverage car insurance for financing a $12,000 car they pay $30,000 for, etc) as well as the benefits available. SFC Taylor hit the nail on the head with subbing items for affection. I've lost count of the number of spouses who will say their Soldiers "owes" them for deployment and looks to the $2000 rings, $30,000 cars, etc. Or the spouses who feel they are entitled to a high ticket item for every special event the year before a deployment and the year following a deployment. And Red Dog hit it with the PX prices. Sometimes the PX has better deals, almost never on electronics though. I admit to getting my husband a super gaming computer for deployment but even with the bells and whistles, it was less then the out of date PX ones. And that will be his biggest purchase for the deployment. However, I don't agree that keeping Soldiers in debt is the only way to keep them in the Army. Some come in with debt which is why they join. The Soldiers I work with have had candid discussions with their former NCOIC about finances. She told them she wanted them to learn from her mistakes. She has advised them to save and invest money. She shows them how much she has saved from deployments with goes into the "House Buying Fund". Yet, too often after she would leave, I'd hear "I'm only [insert age less than 25] and have plenty of time to pay off my debt. I just applied for another credit card."
Exactly!!
7 Monday, 20 October 2008 13:00
HOOAH!!
"The reality is as long as Soldiers are in debt it is much easier to keep them in the Army."

Couldn't have said it any better...

I am going to add to that... So long as AAFEES continues to offer all the really expensive "stuff"... Lemme just say that the PVT's eyes is often bigger than the wallet and so debt ensues...
Money
6 Monday, 20 October 2008 00:59
Red Dog
I've enjoyed reading all the great responses and had to throw in my "two cents" which, it seems, is about all I have left. I've never gotten a bonus but have figured out a way to spend all the tax free money I could have saved during deployments.

It doesn't help that Soldiers are already in 50K in debt by the time they take the 30K bonus. Also, many of us forget to check how much the insurance is going to be on a new car, at age 21, when you've never owned a car before, must I go on. As for spending during the deployment I don't find the $1000 dollar computer or $1000 dollar watch sold at AAFES much help either. Credit comes far too easy, if it didn't we, taxpayers, wouldn't be buying AIG, Lehman Brothers, etc. Heck, I'd love to buy a house but with all the foreclosures I'm spending my tax money on I can't afford one.

My last comment, the reality is as long as Soldiers are in debt it is much easier to keep them in the Army.
Soldiers and their Money
5 Sunday, 19 October 2008 05:01
SFC TAYLOR BRAVO, 3STB
From talking with and listening to Soldiers talk I have learned that Soldiers and their spouses are substituting things for affection. To wit personal electronics either to help with deployment or to have when they return. Some pay off debts like cars and credit cards, and a few try their hands at investing. Then there are the gift giving holidays where the gifts can be more extravagant, like items bought at a bazaar or specialty shop.
"We are all adults" here. We can only mentor and counsel about money (or any other personal matter).
Soldiers and their money
4 Saturday, 18 October 2008 22:47
Jennifer Whiskeyman, Fort Drum
I am a volunteer for the Financial Readiness program back here at Fort Drum and a military spouse. I have been teaching the budget class on Fridays to your soldiers and family members. There are a myriad of reasons soldiers have issues with their pay and budgeting, but the thing I see the most is that the vast majority don't even understand the first thing about money. They join the military grossly uneducated about their finances. Most of them don't even know how to read their LES. They have no idea if their pay is accurate or what the acronyms and deductions mean. When we get them at the budgeting class they are under duress to be there. It is difficult to always engage them and trust me I am not shy about trying to engage them in discussion. We encourage them to come see us at Financial Readiness for one on one counseling. Some will, but most won't.

CPT Stockbridge is right, another generic power point brief is boring, but the team at financial readiness has put together a brief that is intended to be engaging and attention grabbing. We pass out notebooks at each budgeting class to encourage documentation of all expenses on a weekly, bi-weekly and monthly basis to find out where their money is going. We discuss the various food programs that are available to young families along with the re-sale stores that are in town and on-post. At every class we help soldiers "find" money in their budget to help pay down debt or to start their emergency fund.

Please encourage your soldiers to utilize this program before they are in trouble. We are here to help them.
My two cents
3 Saturday, 18 October 2008 18:03
Ja Red
We see a credit crisis. Americans are swimming in debt. Banks are failing. Banks are not lending money. People are defaulting on mortgages, failing to make credit card payments, and saving less. The Army is made up of citizens and is a direct reflection of Society.

The Army has the same problems that society gives it. We live in a “keeping up with the Jones’,” “my Bling is bigger than yours,” flat-screen, instant gratification society. We live in a Society where we are constantly bombarded with images of products we are told we can’t live without. We are shown lifestyles that we can’t afford but are expected to maintain. We want it. We want it bigger, brighter, shinier, and we want it now. No one wants to save anymore. No one thinks about the rainy day. No one even knows what a rainy day is.

Credit, up until lately, has been easy to get with zero down, no interest financing, and fast, friendly, free delivery with-in 50 miles. Satisfaction guaranteed, or your money back. But we are never satisfied. There is always something bigger and better. But we want it now. We want Flat-screens, Blue jeans, Camel Backs, Ruck-sacks, Oakley Boots, and Games that shoot. Don’t forget, cars that bump, Double Deuce rims, new pain jobs, and new tattoos from Mr. Kim’s. We also must have internet, as fast as it gets, I-pods, I-phones, I-macs, I-robots, I-homes, I-life’s, but on finances, we won’t see eye to eye.

But what can be done? How do we change what society has driven home? Education is the only answer. As stated in the thread above, the last thing I want is to listen to financial guidance from someone when my finances in order. But if we are really going to fix this, then it has to be done.

Soldiers should be educated on the TSP. I don’t know how many times I have had to set down with Soldiers and explain what the TSP is and what it is for. Soldiers, in general, really have no idea of potential for saving using the TSP. Sure, there are a lot of programs with potential for better earnings, but that isn’t the point. Any savings is better than nothing.

There should be classes on how to live on a budget and still save. When I actually had Soldiers, I would set down with them and counsel them on their finances. I gave them budget sheets and we worked on a budget that they could live on and still put money away. Leaders cannot be afraid to take their Soldiers by hand and teach them financial responsibility.

Classes on the danger of credit cards and what APR’s are. When Soldiers realize they are buying a $12,000 car for $30,000 or that $2,000 T.V. for $3,000, it’s a real wake-up call.

In respect to a Soldiers personal time and money, it has been my experience that a Soldier is going to do what a Soldier is going to do. No amount of counseling and preaching about financial peace is going to make a difference unless the Soldier is ready to make a change in their lifestyle and you can take that to the bank.
Financial Planning
2 Saturday, 18 October 2008 11:57
MamaWolf in Carthage
Army Community Services has a program for family financial planning that isn't another death by PowerPoint. Soldiers and family members can go in for one on one counseling and to learn to do budgetting. For those who do love the PPT, there are budgetting classes twice a month for 3 hours as well as a checkbook management class. Something that is needed as I have lost count of the number of Soldiers / Spouses who I have talked to who know nothing about checkbooks.
In 17 years around the military community, the one thing that is clear is that money management isn't an individual deal. With the single Soldiers, look to the parents. Some have Moms/Dads who speak to them honestly about money while others were raised with the "it builds your credit" mentality with a half dozen credit cards in the wallet. With the married Soldiers, both of the spouse need to be committed to making it better.
Soldiers and their money
1 Saturday, 18 October 2008 09:31
CPT Stockbridge 1st BSTB
Without some education and guidance our Soldiers will continue to spend every penny on a two week cycle no matter how much they are paid. In the short cycles between our deployments I see Soldiers trying to have fun at any cost knowing that they will have another deployment in the near future to help them pay for today's purchases.
I believe that a well thought out budgeting program that sits Soldiers down and encourages them to put money into savings or the TSP could be successful if those tools are made easily available. Most Soldiers don't see that the little purchases add up quickly, and don't have a good grasp of their expenses each month. Without sitting Soldiers down and forcing them to fill out the paperwork that would put $300 every month into a savings account instead of the checking account connected to their debit cards the trend will likely continue.
Credit cards are harder to tackle because its difficult to see the damage on a monthly basis, but Soldiers are smart, and will likely latch on to the idea that waiting a month to pay for something saves them 20% or more of the cost compared to putting it on plastic and paying it off slowly.
I admit that I am not looking forward to "another mandatory briefing" even if the subject is budgeting, but I do think its what we need. If the training is more than the generic power point brief, that no one gets anything out of, then it could be valuable, and if it forces some action and participation then it might make a difference for our Soldiers.



Support Your Soldiers

hi i am from theuk but just wanted to wish all you guys good luck and get home safe,i would also like to say to major james wagner i love you huni am worried bout you please get in touch soon let me know you are ok my darling love you loadsmiss u like crazy any of you guys over 40yrs fancy getting in touch then please email me at taliswoman@btinternet.com once again lads&lassesgreetings from the uk take care guys godbless you all sue xx



susan parkinson, united kingdom

To MATTHEW LOPEZ;Thinking of you daily and the sacrifices you have made.You are in our thoughts, our love and prayers.We love you and miss you so much.Can't wait till you are home safely to us and looking forward to watching you play hockey.From all of us here..Your Family <3



KATHY LOPEZ, ANAHIEM,CA

George, stay safe and stay strong. I love you, SSSS, Rhonda



Rhonda, Ft Drum, NY

We miss you Austin! Be safe! So proud of all of you over there! XoXo Mom & Mackenzie



Nancy, Concord, CA

To my son Christopher Norman Your sisters and I are so proud of you and we miss you. We think of you everyday. Stay safe. Love Mom Amber, Brittany and Tay Tay



Kimberly, Cupertino CA

To my son SPC. Jonathan Arias left to Afganitan May 14th i just wanted to tell you how proud it is to have a son like you thank you for making our country a better place cant wait to have you an my arms again i miss you GOD BLESS YOU ALL for the sacrifices.



Lydia Flores, EastBoston

To my son SPC. Jonathan Arias let to Afganitan May 14th i just wanted to tell you how proud it is to have a son like you thank you for making our country a better place cant wait to have you an my arms again i miss you GOD BLESS YOU ALL for the sacrifices.



Lydia Flores, EastBoston

I'm writing to say hello to my son Private Alex, a military policeman, a good son and a patriot serving his country in its time of need. Your dad misses you. Write me soon: Stephen Keefe



Stephen R. Keefe, Fairfax, VA

We are so proud of your accomplishments this week. Maybe you can show us your gold medal one day. Love Mom XOXOXOX



Cynthia Bratton, Gladwin, Michigan

Hey Mike I think of you daily. I know your far away but your always close to your family. I'm so proud of you and all 10th mountain. My prayers are with you keep up the great work you do for all of us at home. Your sacrifice is a blessing for all this country to hold close to our hearts. Dad  God Bless You All!!!



Ed Chavez, Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
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